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Talk back
Sophie Flack
THE KID IS ALL RIGHT Flack poses with her painting.Photograph: Jolie RubenAlong with being a dancer, you are a painter. Recently your artwork was rejected from the Dancers’ Choice program. Would you describe the piece?
When I made the painting, I was really upset about everything that’s gone down lately, but I was also thinking about the universal culture of classical ballet—specifically the corps de ballet. It’s about something that’s not really discussed. The painting is called Kids, because we’re referred to as kids by the administration. Some of the people they’re referring to are 35-year-old women with children. I’m 25.Is that term used for both men and the women?
Yes. I’d like to ask Peter [Martins] who came up with the kids thing. It feels like an insult and we notice, and I just wonder if it’s necessary or what they think it does. It feels derogatory; we work really hard. We’re adults. The painting is a self-portrait. I look really pissed in it. The hair—I’ve gotten into wacky materials lately and I bought neon paint—is neon blond, and through the hair it says, “Kids, kids, kids, kids, kids.” In the collarbone and the neck area, it quotes the things that have been said to me during the past couple of months. I asked my girlfriends if they would incorporate some of the things that have been said to them but nobody wanted to share. It was really cathartic to make the piece and to let go of nasty comments. And also to put them on my body—because a lot of the comments were body-oriented also. I wrote in glitter: “This is all I’ve ever wanted” in huge letters, and then “sophieflack.com” in the corner because they didn’t want to display my website in the showing. So I put it on the piece. It felt like a big fuck-you. It felt amazing to make it. I needed to purge myself and I really wanted to share it, so I was disappointed when it was rejected, but not surprised. It was a risk I was taking. I think it was worth it. I displayed it backstage on a corkboard by the green room, so a lot of the corps saw it. And they liked it.It’s so ironic—because the Dancers’ Choice evening was about celebrating the corps de ballet. Who rejected it?
I can’t name anybody. [Laughs] But it was rejected because it was too angry. It just feels like a bit of a lie. I guess the whole idea of performance, especially in ballet, is really an illusion—what you put out there is just a tiny bit of what really goes on depending on your profession, but it feels like this is part of that illusion. That we have glamorous lives and in reality, we’re often not treated very well and not very fairly, and I’ve been really frustrated for a lot of my career. At the same time there’s this duality, because I feel so lucky to have been a ballet dancer with the company that I wanted to; I’ve danced a lot for nine years. The same person that gave me this gift is the same person that took it away and crushed me. A lot of people refer to Peter as a father figure. It’s a dysfunctional family.I would suppose that every dance company is.
I know. I can’t really say that it’s just City Ballet.Have you danced in any other companies?
No. But I have friends in other companies. I know that we dance more—hours a day, hours a week.So you will be attending Columbia University?
Yes. In General Studies. People keep asking me if I’m going to continue dancing. The biggest thing for me is that I came to a place in my career where I feel really comfortable and at peace onstage, and I feel like that’s a real achievement. Just to feel like myself onstage. And I just don’t know where my talent’s going to go. For me, art is a fluid thing, and it’s one talent that goes into a lot of different places. And I’m interested in a lot of different things, artistically and not. I’m just really curious. That’s why I’m going to Columbia. Still, though, the amount of control that I’ve found—I just don’t know what I’m going to do with that knowledge of my body. I don’t know if I’m going to put it into something else or just kind of let it lie dormant.Did you talk to other dancers who left?
Yes. Actually, my shrink is [one]. And Kristin Sloan. She transitioned into video with the company; I feel like that was a smooth transition for her, because she’s still working in the theater. I have this idea to do a documentary on the stagehands. Part of me is obviously still interested in being part of the theater, but maybe from a slightly different angle. I’m curious about the knowledge the stagehands have of the dancers and what draws them to work at a theater that produces only opera and classical ballet. It’s the juxtaposition between these big burly guys that are teamsters and these lithe ballerinas. Visually it’s really interesting also. I love Toni Bentley’s book Winter Season. Every girl in the corps has read that. I want to have a little distance from [the ballet world], but I do want to start writing a lot. Maybe an updated version? I love that book. My boyfriend read it when we started going out for him to get an idea of our world.When did you start dancing?
Seven. I’m from Boston. I danced with the Boston Ballet. My first role onstage was a lamb in The Nutcracker. In Boston, they have lambs in the Marzipan section.Do you know why you wanted to start ballet?
Yeah. It was actually a strange coincidence. Boston Ballet was actually rehearsing in my school gymnasium when the company was reconstructing a building. So I would see ballerinas walking around in our school. It sounds like a dream or something. But ballet was also a trendy thing to do in first and second grade. I was really shy and I wanted my mom to walk me down the stairs to the gym, but she said that when I was brave enough to walk down the stairs by myself was when I allowed to take lessons. It took me a year to find the courage. And I loved it right away. I guess as a shy person, ballet was really helpful.So you studied dance at the Boston Ballet School?
Yes. And I studied gymnastics.1 | 2 | 3 | 4 EXCLUSIVE VIDEO Backstage at Sophie Flack's last show
Time Out New York / Issue 718 : Jul 2–8, 2009
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How brave of you, Sophie, To "out" the inner world of NYC Ballet and the concentrated pursuit of a career as a professional ballet dancer. Having recently read an interview with the former ABT dancer-who now has a featured role in FINIAN'S RAINBOW on Broadway-I was struck by quite a few similarities in content shared by both ladies-being referred to as "kids"; the lack of any orientation, so to speak, to assist the average teenager who is hired for a company, to deal with the "world" of ballet.
Best of luck to you Sophie in the new phase of your life. NYCB might have been your dream, but there are hundreds of wonderful companies in the US that would love to have you as a dancer!
This person sounds like a child. She exhibits a pouty piece of art instead of effective behavior. She's twenty-five, which has always been a maturity divide, but she comes off as a privileged teen.
my daughter had the same thing happen in another ballet company!(laid off) she too was deeply hurt. her self esteem was trashed! she pulled herself up and she auditioned (her biggest fear was... that they were correct...and she is not "strong enough"). they were wrong. much interest was generated from a couple of the biggest companies in the country! and she found work.
i think the article in the new york times spelled out the emotions of ballet dancers really well. miami city ballet pulled the same thing letting go of 8 dancers and hiring apprentices! the dancers received their notices in the mail!
Sophie,I have waited years to have someone talk about what goes on in that building.Being an ex City Ballet dancer myself Iknow what you say is true,only there is so much more that went on and continues to do so.I quit one day because I couldn't take the verbal and physical abuse anymore.Peter is a disgusting example of a human being and shame on the board for covering up all his crimes.When will someone stop the maddness...
No true dancer could read your interview and see the video without weeping with you. Best of luck Sophie. You have it all and more is in store for you.
I deeply admire this woman's courage and spirit. Thank you for your art, Sophie.
How about starting a dance school?
OK...one door closes, another one opens. If you truly want to keep dancing, NYCB isn't the only excelent co. in the world, not even the only excellent Balanchine co. in the country. If you choose not to leave NYC, that's part of your choice. You aren't so old that you couldn't give contemporary ballet a go, a la Cedar Lake, tho I don't agree about their coreorgraphers. Artists & management rarely see eye to eye, so second guessing doesn't help. You have an opportunity here...use it wisely.
I understand your frustration, Sophie, but don't burn bridges...
Good for you Sophie. My years from 5 years old to 18 was a little similar to yours. I made a conscious decision at 18 to stop ballet (was one of the hardest decisions I had to make at that point in my life). I wanted to pursue an education b/c I knew deep in my heart that the ballet world that I fell in love with as a young girl was not the ballet world as a profession. I saw the red flags very early. You seem like a very talented woman and you will be just fine! Cherish the good memories!
You go girl! I really admire your courage and the strength in which you've handled yourself. I've heard that 15 dancers left NYCB...incredible! But you don't have to worry...You'll rock in wherever life takes you!
What a wonderful interview. I had a recent experience similar to Sophie (I was not laid off in such terms) and for a much smaller company, but many of the emotions, fears and frustrations are 100% the same. It is scary leaving any job for any reason, but being a dancer and the passions that come with it can really mess with your head. Thank you for this article!
Reading the last comment, I'm only left to think that you are taking out your issues on Sophie. Sophie: you have an amazing heart. Never stop believing in yourself.....
You want people to take you seriously in this article yet you make a video or yourself kissing a sponge? Sounds to me like you never really let go of Mom's hand and walked down the stairs to the gym.
let's get this straight: you don't wanna be reffered to as a kid but you paint pissed off portraits with neon and sparkles. You're interested in edgier dance yet you only ever optionally trained with classical teachers.This is all you ever wanted yet you're giving up because of a simple lay-off instead of auditioning elsewhere. You wanted more roles yet, in your meeting with Peter you couldn't even believe in yourself enough to say it in a non "whimpery" voice. con't...
Fellow ballet dancer here.....and it appears that you were too MUCH of an artist to be in a place that wanted you to be this "robot". Things are a blessing in disguise sometimes and you never now whats possible in this dance life of yours. Keep going. Get your degree and keep reaching. You have a voice and maybe its actually time that you go out and find people who will help you express that. Good Luck!
Bravo, Sophie - happy graduation!
As a total outsider reading this interview, my first thought is, why don't you go dance for another company? You're biggest complaint w/NYCB is that they should try different choreography. So why don't you do that somewhere else since NYCB is no longer an option now? You obviously have the talent, and if dance is all you ever wanted, does it really have to be NYCB or nothing? It seems like you still have so much more to offer the dance world at large.
You absolutely will be missed, Sophie; you have been a delight onstage. And thank you for your courage in this interview. I've been watching NYCB for 30+ years, and this layoff upset and angered me. I too am distressed that the company did not try other options. And if none were viable, why cut only from the corps, the hardest working and least paid? It seems unfair, unwise and unprofessional; we all could have expected better. The best of luck to you, Ms. Sophie Flack.
Really interesting and honest and heartfelt. I congratulate Sophie for her wisdom, courage, and artistry. I hope we'll be seeing alot more of sophie's artistic endeavors in the near future.
Lovely video--lots of great detail--nice quiet story. Thanks Time Out and thanks Sophie Flack...